Boo Hoo sniff sniff

[Squirrel]

I neede a couple of replacemeents in my thread boxes in case I run out of them whilst doing the Stocking. No pproblem I will add them to my wish list and it will all come together. Ha Ha
123stitch now only zservice the US aand Canada for threads.


I can get tthreads easily downnear the library but att triple the cost.


Seems asthough politics have entered the world of stitching. We livee aand ,learn I guess.

[Nicola Main]

I don't know if this is of any use Sally but this website sends to Australia and apparently they are very good. Not sure if they have what you need but just thought I'd mention it https://www.artsanddesigns.com/cgi-bin/ ... p.fragment" target="_blank

[wendywombat]

I've used Arts and Design for charts and kits and a couple of other things. They are really good...they send to France no problem.

[Serinde]

What threads do you need? If it's Anchor (or even possibly DMC), I might be able to help. People keep giving me stuff, so I could just about go into business!

[poppy]

That is a bit of a pain, Sally! BUT what a wonderful Website Nicola pointed out : Arts and Design.
I just spent 15 minutes looking through all their kits, charts etc.... So, so tempting.

[Squirrel]

Thank You all for your kind words and suggestions.

Getting them from the US was great as the currency exchange is better than either the UK or EU which is why I have always done it. However I will just have to trot down to the 2 shops in Wynnum to get any replacements.

I had a reply to my query about the ban and apparently it is a DMC directive to only sell in the US and Canada!

[fccs]

Sally, I would be more than happy to send you what you need.

As for Arts and Design, I’ve purchased from them and they are great.

[richardandtracy]

Hmm.
DMC seem to be trying to break the world into discreet markets so that there will be less competition. Ultimately with the internet they'll fail.

Most of my threads have wrappers that say 'Only for sale outside the EU'. That sort of attempt at constricting competition is not something I am going to co-operate with.

Regards,

Richard.

[Squirrel]

I know that the Australian Govt has slapped a 10% tariff on certain imported goods to safeguard Aussie jobs and that is one reason why some firms won't do business with Australia any more - Amazon can only be accessed now through their Australian outlet with its limited stock.
Politics is creeping in everywhere that is for sure.

I did check 123stitch's web site for the specialty threads as in Kreinik #4 braids etc and they are still available from there - at present anyway


Richard, I too have seen that wording on some threads I bought recently all very strange. However we survive and work our way around it and help each other out when needed.


Thank You all for your kinds words and wonderful offers and links. I really do appreciate you all.

[Angelite]

I hope you can find what you need locally Sally. I can also vouch for Arts and Designs as being a great company if you should ever need to order from them.

Sigh, yes even cross stitch is not immune to the world of politics so it seems. I have wondered at the wording on some of my skeins too. What I am always more that slightly envious of is the price of thread in the US compared to that here in the UK. A friend of mine says she gets hers from a place called Michaels and she often has discount coupons of up to 40% to spend on top of their already ridiculously cheap price. I wish the price was universal throughout the world but that is unlikely to happen. C'est la Vie as they say. It won't stop me cross stitching but I can still dream of cheaper floss!

[Squirrel]

I agree Vana it is lovely to dream of cheaper items for our hobbies however we must deal with reality.

[DisneyStitcher]

Hello all, I haven't posted in ages but have been lurking. I'm not sure DMC is wholly to blame for the different sales regions. I thought the higher prices in Europe were a result of compliance with EU 1007/2011? If Australia has implemented sales restrictions as well to protect local jobs, is it possible DMC is just trying to stay in compliance with the sales requirements for the various countries and not be liable for its authorized distributors selling outside of the contracted country? I agree that all the different prices stink, but I'm not sure how much choice companies are given if they want to stay in compliance with local laws. Happy stitching everyone!

[Serinde]

A very interesting point.

[richardandtracy]

If a company makes the goods to comply with the most restrictive regulations, it should comply in all jurisdictions unless the regs are incompatible (which is growing increasingly unlikely these days). Consequently, they should be able to sell everywhere, and deliberate market impediments by suppliers being the only barrier to trade. I think this is DMC's approach.
The regs for electrical goods are very tight in the EU, a bit less in the US, and much more in Asia. However, as all goods tend to be made to comply with EU regs, virtually all the goods can be sold worldwide. I doubt strongly that the regs on threads are more difficult to comply with.

Regards

Richard.

[DisneyStitcher]

Hello Richard! You make a good point. I wasn't really talking about the manufacturing process per say - merely the costs of complying with all the different sales/trade regulations. I think all DMC floss is still manufactured in France, and as all of our shades change when environmental regulations impact certain dyes I don't think they are using different processes for different markets. I know here in the US, the costs of certain goods go up in relation to the amount of paperwork a company has to supply to various states to meet their regulation standards. The manufacturing process is the same, but the documentation requirements vary widely. California residents, in particular, pay more because of the amount of documentation the state requires to "prove" safe manufacturing processes. Also, as a small scale example of the type of global market we seem to be describing - every city and state in the US have different tax rates. I, for example, have to pay 10% on every purchase I make to cover local, city, and state taxes, while my sister-in-law who lives 5 miles down the road but in a different city pays 10.5%. My best friend in VA pays 6%, my brother in MT pays only 3%. Up until about 2 months ago, federal law said that unless a business had a brick and mortar presence in the state, they did not have to collect sales tax on out-of-state customers. This helped lead to the explosion of internet shopping here in the US, because, why would you pay sales tax on anything you could order online? I could buy $200 worth of supplies at JoAnn and pay $220, or I could order it online, usually finding a free shipping deal, and save myself that extra $20. States had been screaming for years that they were losing millions in sales tax revenues that should be going to support services and infrastructure, and the major retailers that had physical stores in most states (Walmart, CVS, etc.) were screaming it was unfair because they were losing customers because they had to collect taxes that their competition did not have to collect. Our Supreme Court took another look at this issue and decided that the existing law was made before anyone could have foreseen internet shopping as it exists today and ruled that states can collect sales tax from online vendors on sales made to residents of their states. (How that is going to be regulated is still up for debate.). My supposition is that DMC faces this type of hodge-podge of regulations in terms of sales restrictions on a global scale. If the EU documentation requirements drives the cost of floss up, or Australia imposes an importation tax that drives up the cost, etc., etc., then of course the folks who live in those areas want to bypass their local sellers and order from a place with less expensive product. I'm just not sure DMC is deliberately gouging certain markets but instead trying to remain in compliance with whatever regulations are in place at the point of sale. I'm guessing that the cost of floss is crudely determined by cost of manufacture + X amount of profit margin + cost of doing business with regional market. My poor brain doesn't have anything in the way of a solution to any of this. That's my two cents, virtually worthless I know.

[Serinde]

What an interesting discussion. I'd never really considered the impact of a different country's regulations on the cost of imported items, apart from crudely reckoning import tax. As for the differing tax regimes between US states... whose bad-hair-day idea was that? I suspect the gods of unintended consequences are smiling!

[richardandtracy]

Disneystitcher,

You have painted a picture of a much more fractured market than I would ever have guessed for the US. I have made and sold 200+ pen parts to people in the US, and though of it as a single market with the same rules throughout. I am obviously very wrong.

I have made a further couple of hundred of the same parts and sold them within the EU. However, since the latest change in regulations, I have stopped selling to any part of the EU except the UK. The reason for this is that I must pay sales tax to the government of each country where I send anything. In the UK there is a £1000 or so sales threshold below which I need not do this. For every other EU country, there is no minimum. So, to be strictly legal, if I get an order from someone in Greece, I need to pay the Greek government 21% of the £2.50 cost of the part.. If the recipient is in France, it's a mere 20%. There are 27 EU countries that want me to do this, and I needed to research how to do it for every country. My response was 'I can't be bothered to sell the parts, then'. So, I stopped selling to the EU. I have sold about 500 of the parts worldwide (US, Canada, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Greece, Italy, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Finland, and one to Argentina), and not selling to the EU has meant I have a bit more free time! And with each part taking 30 minutes, it was not exactly profitable.

It must be a nightmare in the US where every town has a different tax rate. How does any business cope? Or is there a sensible threshold below which payment is not required?

Astonishing.

Regards,

Richard.

[DisneyStitcher]

The US tax system is a dumpster fire, that's for sure! There is no minimum threshold for sales taxes, you buy a $1.00 candy bar, you pay the sales tax accordingly. The accounting industry here does very well, a good CPA generally makes six figures. Each state has it's own Department of Taxation and Revenue and there are specialized business in almost every big city that keep track of all the state, city, and municipal sales taxes and go around reprogramming the cash registers whenever a sales tax increases or decreases. It gets really fun for everyone when different types of items are taxed at different rates. For example, in my city, generally goods are taxed at 10% when including all of the state, local, and municipal tax rates. But, prescription medications are only taxed at 3%. In about 1/2 of the states, sodas and other sugary drinks have an extra tax imposed on top of the regular tax rate. Most states have extra taxes on tobacco products and alcohol - we jokingly call these "sin" taxes. To make it even MORE fun, none of these extra taxes are uniform and vary from state to state and sometimes city to city. The general assumption in the US is that sales taxes are imposed on citizens at local and state levels to generate revenue to pay for public services and infrastructure, and thus should only be paid by the people expecting to use those services. Up until the Supreme Court ruling this summer, none of the local retailers had to worry about any sales taxes outside of their physical location. (If I ordered a specialty fabric from a LNS in Mississippi, because I live in Louisiana, the shop would not have charged me sales tax. The same principal applied to Etsy shops, Amazon, etc.) They ran their sales tapes, filled out some forms, and remitted the collected sales tax to the state. National and regional retailers had internal IT programs that kept track of internet sales to keep them in compliance but it worked basically the same way. Their programming told them the ZIP code that the order was placed from and applied the correct sales tax. Because internet sales are so ubiquitous now, something had to give as revenue for the states continued to plummet. The monkey in the tree is exactly how, outside of an honor system, any of the states are going to be able to force out-of-state sellers to accurately report their sales or to even pay anything at all. If the state of LA sends a tax bill to a seller in CA, there is nothing, as of yet, LA can do to force actual payment if the CA seller throws the bill in the trash. Amazon is currently paying state taxes on sales from their warehouses, but is not policing the independent sellers in their network. My guess is that as long as the major national and regional players pay like they are supposed to, the states won't waste resources going after Etsy sellers with only $100s in yearly sales. I know our sales tax system is one of the major complaints from foreign visitors. You walk into one of our stores, and the price is listed at $20.00 - and our foreign visitors get very confused when the cashier says "that'll be $22.00." The visitor then politely shows them the price and ask if there is a mistake... you get the picture. When you hear us from the US telling you a price for something, generally it's the price before tax. I guess VAT isn't looking so bad now?

[Serinde]

Oh, VAT is a horror, but at least it is included in the sticker price! Foreign tourists then have that amount deducted, and have (I think) receipts and things to present to customs in their home country. Also there are a range of items on which VAT isn't levied (like insurance or subscription to a club) or is zero rated -- human food, for example, but not take-away hot food. "Luxuries" like washing machines and women's sanitary products (really) are charged VAT. (There's a growing campaign to make the latter zero-rated for VAT, unsurprisingly.) "Burial or cremation of dead people, or burial at sea" (I kid you not, that's what it says!) is zero rated, so that's ok, then.

[rcperryls]

What an interesting conversation to be the first thread I read since getting back from Disney World which was way too much fun and way too exhausting but I'd do it again in a skinny minute. I think when you grow up with the kind of crazy tax system we have from state to state you just sort of get used to it. But clearly that is why some states have higher prices for some things than others.(gasoline for eg) and different regulations and requirements. We have different % for sales taxes in South Carolina for food, prescriptions, and I'm not sure what else except what different groups have managed to lobby for, I would guess. Then one week-end a year, right before school starts, there is a tax free week-end which is supposed to make it easier for parents to purchase the supplies and clothes the children will need for school. But there are some really strange items included in the tax free week-end. I never have understood how bridal gowns got included. Computers are which makes sense. You are supposed to sign something (at least you used to have to) that says the purchase is for a student, but I know lots of people who buy the computer for themselves.

That being said, Sally, if you need any particular colors for your projects let me know. I think I have at least two complete sets of DMC and would be more than glad to mail them to you. Like Serena, I have had so many threads given to me that it isn't a problem giving any of them up.

Now to check up on everything else I missed.

Carole