Copyright Concerns

[gyork]

i am going to put my nose in here too, I am appalled by the way artists and copyright holders are treated by some people, case in point, Michelle (haed) is having a terrible time with people selling her designs and it is seriously affecting her continuing with her wonderful business, I think everyone should keep an eye out and report these sites/people whenever they seen, I don't know if it's mallitious or just ignorance, but the amount of work people like Michelle and skitzzzz from the forum do has to be preserved as far as I am concerned, I hope everyone else would agree

[johe07]

Great Topic!

I can learn a lot and know more about the copyrights!

I remember when in my young time, I went into the shop looking for the stitch pattern, most the shop are put the photo into a file and let me choose, after that they will sell me a photostate copy of the pattern. At that time, I really don't know much about copyrights, around me nobody know about this. And the photocopy patter still selling 5-15 bucks(in my local currency)

When I getting grow up, I getting know about copyrights, I know this is really bad get a "COPY" version of the pattern. Yes, it is true for our country people to get the original copy of the pattern, and also not much people aware about copyrights. So currently, our country only selling the cross stitch kit from China or Korea, they selling cheaper than US/Europe or others out of Asia country.

But another question, I did try buy the kit from China, I feel they also pack the kit and re-print the pattern by themself. I not sure they do this in legal way or illegal, but when I get the product, my feeling really not so good.

I really hope the people here can get a chance to stitch a nice pattern with legal way. When I try get the original copy but the people around me always said i'm so "RICH" to buy those, why not buy those cheaper copy? I'm not rich actually, but I know how difficult the design come out this patter!

Everytime I think to stitch the finish product for sell to earn some to buy more product, I will search around is the designer allow me to sell the finish product. If not mention there, I really will try look the way to contact the designer. I know this is still not enough to change the mind of people here. But I hope my practice will let the coming young know understand more about copyrights, how to protect designer.

If change the position, you are the designer and product steal by others, how will you feel?

So, please post more knowledge about those so I can know more and and share to my friends. Because our here really have less knowledge about this.

Joey

[OctoberLace]

I'll follow up on Mabel's note on HAED, since the issue of selling a hard copy of a chart originally purchased in .pdf format was addressed on the HAED BB and in some correspondence I had with one of the HAED moderators. Here is a direct quote from the HAED BB posted by Nance, one of the moderators:

Just to verify PDF's can't be sold. Even if the seller say's they will delete the file afterwards as there is no way of knowing for sure. I know your honest [name of stitcher removed], but you just don't know who else is out there with the file with bad intentions. Of course when in doubt please always ask.

edited to add:

Here are the parameters [per Michele Sayetta] to sell, trade, give etc.
•It is illegal to copy a chart for your friend
•It is illegal to share OR sell a PDF file
•It is illegal to forward a PDF file unless it is accompanied by my permission (such as a lost chart that needs to be replaced by us)
•It is legal to sell or give away the original chart. Hard copy version
•it is legal to sell a hardcopy chart you no longer want on eBay or other marketplaces that support such products
•It is legal to post pictures of your work but not legal to post a picture of the artwork without the HAED/artist watermark

[Mrs Milkybar Kid]

I read this interesting blogpost by Northern Expression Needlework on the subject of copyright, just thought I would add it in here incase other forum members had not seen it.

[Mystonique]

The truth is that it doesn't matter how persuasive the information about the harm it does is ... generally the only people reading all these persuasive arguments are people that already agree.

Sites like this make the big difference: sites which attract everyone (by offering a fabulous forum of helpful information and comaradarie) that also actively denounce and thwart copyright infringements at every opportunity.

So thank you Rose, thank you ladies and gentlemen. I don't want to see our craft die and it will if we don't keep our vigilance.

[johe07]

Mm, I think to ask, whether I can sell my finish HAED ? Actually is legal or illegal??? Thanks.

[Rose]

If you had the pattern sent to you as a hard copy. That is through the mail and printed on paper then yes you can sell that one original copy. But if you got the pattern as a download through you e-mail then NO you can not give, sell or otherwise recycle that pattern.

[johe07]

Thx Rose. This one I understand, I means the actual finished stitched picture.
I like to stitch but not like to keep so much finished item. If someone interest to buy, not sure I can sell it? Of course I will not selling the PDF copy as I know is illegal. ^^

[Rose]

Oh Ok I was thinking charts not finished projects.

Little more complicated. Easy answer is yes you can sell the finished product as you are asking for payment for your work and the materials needed for the design to be completed.

To expand you can not make more then one design per chart for sale unless you get the permission of the designer. So if you stitch a picture and then some one comes along and says I want 5 of those, one for each friend, you would have to contact the designer and ask if they would allow you to do this.

[Rose]

This of course is a hard question to answer as the way that you bought the pattern (in chart or in kit????) has a lot to do with the answer.

If you bought a chart then it can be implied that you will stitch it more then once. That does not mean that yopu could mass produce it and make a profit off of the project but it does mean that you can gift the finish project to multiple people. But if you are going to say do the same pattern over and over and sell them then the designer needs to be contacted and asked permission.

Now if you have bought it as a kit the rules are different. Those are produced n a kit to be stitched once. Some but not all of the kits will specifically say to be stitched only once. Then that is a stated rule and should be followed. Then you would have to buy another kit and stitch it from the second kit. Those that are not specifically stated still could be meant as a single use but they can also be seen as the same as a bought chart.

All can be very confusing.

[mpar3720]

just post your work, if someone wants the pattern bad enough they will draw it out from your picture of your work.

[Rose]

mpar3720 I am not sure what you are trying to say, but it would be against copyright to find a picture of another designers work and then to copy it as a pattern. The picture is protected under copyright as is the actual pattern.

[Amanda G]

"I read this interesting blogpost by Northern Expression Needlework on the subject of copyright, just thought I would add it in here incase other forum members had not seen it."

Thank you for putting the above link. I've been reading through the NEN blog and it's really informative. I was shocked to know the scale of copyright theft that goes on.
As a designer, I have to say that forum members on here come across as a really considerate group with respect to designer's copyright issues, so a thank you from me to all of you .
And particular thanks to the moderators for being so hot on copyright You do a great job!

[Mabel Figworthy]

We have to make our designs clear enough for people to decide that they want to stitch them, but at the same time, stop copying - it's VERY difficult.

It's a balance I find very tricky -- and even having pictures of your work elsewhere is fraught with risk, because anything posted on a forum can be found even by people who have nothing to do with the forum, and who aren't nearly so careful about copyright as everyone here is. It's quite frustrating because sometimes I want to show off little details in my stitching here on the forum, but not necessarily to anyone else who might unscrupulously try to copy it!
If anyone can think of a solution, I'd be very grateful....

[Mabel Figworthy]

Even then the pictures are likely to show up on Google images, and people would see them there even if they can't see them on the forum . It is very very difficult to protect images once they are on any part of the internet, unfortunately.

[Mrs Milkybar Kid]

Even then the pictures are likely to show up on Google images, and people would see them there even if they can't see them on the forum . It is very very difficult to protect images once they are on any part of the internet, unfortunately.

Nothing from the HAED BB shows up on Google - but that's probably something to do with the fact that it is members only and there is an application process. It must be very hard for designers - on the one hand they want to show their creations to honest, supportive stitchers (that will happily pay to stitch their beautiful designs) but on the other want to protect it from those insidious idiots that are going to be the death of our beautiful craft

[XStitchLover]

Does it breach copyright to cut pages from a cross stitch magazine and sell them to someone else? I'd always though of copyright infringement as copying something not selling the original.

[Rose]

If the magazine was legally bought and there for no copy is made either to keep or sell then it should be ok to sell them. But be sure to check and see if there is a message such as not for individual sale, if that is added into the designers credits then you could not sell just one chart.

[backafteradozenyrs]

Here's a copyright question:

If I've purchased a chart, am I allowed to deviate from it? (Am I allowed to change the design?)

On that same note, is it legal to purchase 2 different designers charts & combine them? (NOT for any kind of commercial purpose...this is TOTALLY about personalizing something in my 's) And/or should I tell the designer what I'm thinking of doing?

edited to add: And would this make me a DEVIANT?

[Rose]

You can personalize any chart that YOU are stitching, what you can not do is make changes to a chart and then reproduce that chart as your personal property and share it with others.

What you have asked is some thing that I have done on many occasions. This is just part of stitching.

As far as telling the designer there is no reason to as far as I know. Designers would be bombarded by e-mails or other communications if this was necessary.