Movies and TV

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Sahari
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Movies and TV

Post by Sahari »

Hubby and I have recently watched a BUNCH of TV and movies set in the 1800's early 1900's. And there is a LOT of stitching being done by women in parlors. You know what you NEVER see? A diagram! They're always needling away, full tilt, WHILE CONVERSING!, and nary an instruction in sight. Makes me wonder if there ARE people out there who stitch on an extemporaneous basis.
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Podolyanka
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by Podolyanka »

In 1950s my mum used to stitch while looking at some one else's finshed stitching( for example, a cushion). But in 1960s in Soviet magazines for women there were already charts- mainly black and white, of poor quality, but still. In 1980s there were colour charts available in magazines. So I think the problem with those women on TV was in the director of the film knowing nothing about how stitching is done. He knew a woman had to sit stitching- well, here she is- a needdle and thread in hand digging the fabrick. Charts/patterns, storage boxes with threads, special lamps and magnifiers are acrobatic flying, so how could he have known about them? There are often such faults in old films- I remember my dad(criminal police officer) used to comment on some detectives "this guy would have been fired from work that same day if he had done this".
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richardandtracy
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by richardandtracy »

I don't think they are too far wrong, actually. I base this statement on work my Great-Aunt did in the 1920's & 1930's. I have some of her unfinished work that I know she started around that time (the floss bobbins are on postcards from India, and some of them are franked 1928-1932, which is when her sister {my grandmother} was in India, and it is highly likely they were turned into bobbins at the time).

My Great-Aunt started off with a watercolour painting of the design:
Image

Then she traced the painting:
Image

And transferred the design to the fabric by pricking through the tracing paper and outlining with a blue pencil (just visible) and then over stitching the outline in black thread in the area she wanted to work on:
Image

After that, all the information to embroider the picture was on the fabric, so no chart needed. The details are quite stunning:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

We also have a similar level of detail with her 'City & Guilds' final project piece, which she completed in 1912 (I think). This time she traced a printed painting, then pricked that out and embroidered the picture from there.
Image
The rest of my images of that museum quality piece are on photobucket & I can't display them any more.

So, going back to the question, I think there were no charts as we know them prior to the 1950's, when printing of things that were not text became easier. I think it's likely that cross stitch designs as well as embroidery were sketched on the fabric that people worked on.

Regards,

Richard.
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wendywombat
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by wendywombat »

I remember seeing these before Richard...they are still as awesome in a second showing!

You must feel real pride when looking at them! Real treasures 8)

I think you're right...there were few charts and 'prick and pounce' was a way of transferring a design onto fabric. Also there were samplers where patterns were made for reference and these too have been kept and displayed. Samplers today are poor examples of the really old ones.
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richardandtracy
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by richardandtracy »

Wendy,
You caught me out. They are, indeed, photos recycled from January this year, and the reason why these are shown is because I've not uploaded the ones of the Henry VII & Elizabeth of York picture onto CSF yet. Photobucket is a pain...

This link gives an idea of some of the books available early on: https://archive.org/search.php?query=Cr ... Embroidery. It's noticeable that most are from the US, and few are earlier than the 1880's.

Regards,

Richard.
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Allyn
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by Allyn »

I think what others have pointed out is that back in the day, there were no charts. That's what samplers were. The girls learned the stitches and then made samplers as practice executing the stitches and as a reference for how the stitch is made. They didn't have charts like we do now, so no, they wouldn't be sitting there looking at a chart. If they were practicing their stitches or making something using stitches that they'd already practiced a thousand times, they certainly could be stitching away and chatting without a care. And as Richard pointed out with his Great Aunt's beautiful work, a design would be 'traced' onto the fabric, so 'stamped' stitching would be what we have now that is closer to what they would be doing.
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Podolyanka
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by Podolyanka »

Cant agree on samplers. They have never been popular in Ukraine. Our cross stitch was mainly connected with clothes, tablecloths,rushnyks(towels), pillows, cushions. I dont think samplers were for remembering the technique of stitching. And they were popular in Americas and Australia- the then colonies. Maybe there migrants did try to preserve samples of stitching. Where embroidery was traditionally "a must" (a young lady had to spin yarn, to have it weaven, and then to embroider [there are about 150 to 200 traditional Ukrainian stitches, apart from cross stitch] her own dowry, and by the amount and the quality of it she was judged of), samplers were not popular.
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Sahari
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by Sahari »

Great responses. Thanks all... I feel like I should create a dowry :wink: . And, the RichardandTracy photos are humbling and inspiring at the same time.

I do think, though, that I am more interested in creating and stitching my own patterns than stitching from kits, but I haven't a clue how to start. Maybe something will occur to me while I'm working on my second kit... :idea:

~S
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richardandtracy
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by richardandtracy »

Software can help a great deal when creating your own patterns, but getting the best software for your purposes is dependant on deciding what you really want to do.

If you want to design from scratch, then a package with a greater emphasis on design may be better, so something like PCStitch would be good. However, if you want to convert digital images to patterns, then PCStitch is, frankly, dreadful. The range of conversion options are poor, and you get dreadful contours. I hate colour contours. Also, it's hard to increase the colour numbers up to levels where details come out.

There are some freebies that are reasonable but limited ('Ryijy Stitch Designer' is one I have used, but it produces contours - see my project here http://www.crossstitchforum.com/viewtop ... =6&t=25597), and paid for software can be good, such as 'Pattern Maker'. 'Pattern Maker' has to be used with care in images with a lot of dark areas as it looses detail in the dark by melding colours all to black.
Now, I am a cheapskate, and hate paying for anything, so I have written my own freebie Windows based photo conversion software, and it was used to create the chart for this picture I stitched of my wife (photo taken while we were on honeymoon 26 years ago, and stitched in 2015):
Image
Since that image was stitched, I've added the capability to use blended colours with a simple tick of a tick-box, as seen with my 'Gryff' project http://www.crossstitchforum.com/viewtop ... =6&t=28246. There is a downside with my program, it's aimed at getting the best possible conversion, which means that it offers a huge range of options (which may be confusing to someone who doesn't know what they want, though the help file is as detailed as I can manage), and really only comes into its own at 100+ colours. If you can take it, 3000+ colours are possible; In comparison, Pattern Maker has a limit of 240 programmed in. I once did a 'Throw everything possible at it' conversion of a Leonid Afremov picture, and came up with 7000 colours, but it took a good while on a fast machine to do that, and I'm certain it was un-stitchable.

Sorry, I hadn't intended to go into such detail, just point out some things that it might be worth thinking about if you wish to go further into creating your own patterns.

Regards,

Richard
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Sahari
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by Sahari »

Um.... what exactly do you mean by 'contour' (relative to stitching, obviously)?
And, Holy Mother of God can you stitch.
And, your own computer program? Now you're just showing off... :tizzy:

Seriously, thanks for the thoughtful response. You've given me a good starting point. When I outgrow my diapers, I'll be in touch! ~S
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Sahari
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by Sahari »

Thought of a good question for you Richard, after reading some of your other posts describing things like blending, tent stitches, etc... As a Fresh Newbie who can do:

Full, Half, 1/4 and 3/4 stitches, and French Knots, what is a good next step project to do (meaning, how do I find one knowing it will put me into a next step difficulty round)?

(My bow here).

~S
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kingfisher68(2)
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by kingfisher68(2) »

Wonderful to see these pictures again Richard. I often wondered if in olden days stitchers pricked out the design on the fabric before starting stitching.
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richardandtracy
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by richardandtracy »

Sahari wrote:Um.... what exactly do you mean by 'contour' (relative to stitching, obviously)?
And, Holy Mother of God can you stitch.
And, your own computer program? Now you're just showing off... :tizzy:

Seriously, thanks for the thoughtful response. You've given me a good starting point. When I outgrow my diapers, I'll be in touch! ~S
For colour contours, take a look at this, my first project completed on the forum was:
Image
You can see distinct colour bands. That's contouring.

As for giving further advice as to what to try, I doubt I'm the best person to ask. I'm only on projects 8 and 9 in my life, having started in Jan 2011. I have never French Knotted in my life. Maybe experiment with different fabrics, like linen or even weave, coloured fabrics with shading or patterns. Maybe others can suggest better ideas.

Regards

Richard
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Roland
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by Roland »

Richard, the pictures of your great aunt’s work are amazing.

And if I ever finish either of the pictures I’m working on I plan to try using your pattern maker. My son has something he wants me to stitch.

My mom rarely used a paper pattern. She ironed pictures onto the material to embroider.
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kingfisher68(2)
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Re: Movies and TV

Post by kingfisher68(2) »

In 1950/60s my mum used to get iron pictures to stitch, Roland - they were called transfers. Designs ironed onto fabric were mostly blue lines. Mum used to get some free ones with one of her magazines, Woman's Weekly, as well as buying them occasionally. Transfers were used for embroidery as well as cross stitch designs. My mum mostly did knitting, only occasionally did stitching but she taught me stitching basics.
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