A New Chart Making Program. Update 21 Feb 2018

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richardandtracy
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by richardandtracy »

Don't beat yourself up about it, the feature has only been there since 2nd August. I put it in at Allyn's request, and it does seem to work. I implemented it so if I add any new symbols (on top of the 600 already in the program) it will not need re-visiting, because it just runs through the first 1000 symbols, draws the symbol on an invisible bitmap, checks how bright it is and moves on to the next symbol. At the moment, if the symbol is not defined, a white background is drawn - so no errors occur even if it goes beyond the current limit of symbols.

Regards,

Richard
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SteveM
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by SteveM »

I've had a small success I thought I would share. I've been looking for a smaller image that I might actually stitch up and settled on a test case that was 400x307. First I tried PM and the max colours it would use was 157 and even then the resulting image was just dreadful and the dithering very harsh due to the missing colours that were needed. Next I used your program with DMC only and turned on thread blending. Without too much work I found I could drop the image to 350x268 and using 322 blends made from 187 solids the resulting pattern was astonishingly close to the original. Given a little more time I could easily drop the colour count a bit more, but even as it is now my shopping list would only have 30 more skeins than PM and well worth it at that.

There was one tiny bug I will report in case you want to fix it. When sized to 350 stitches wide each page had 70 stitches for a total of 5 columns, but the program was showing 6 columns. When I printed the pattern to PDF the pages for the 6th column show no symbols, just a single grid line on the left edge with the vertical stitch count. This is really no trouble at all, but now you know.
-Steve

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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by richardandtracy »

This is a rounding bug I'll have to do something about. I think I know what causes it. When dividing the image width by the number of symbols per page, the number of columns is simplistically calculated as:

Number of columns of pages = image width in pixels / number of symbols per page + 1

Instead of always adding 1, I need to check if there is a remainder after dividing the image width by the number of symbols. The same will occur with the number of rows of pages. It isn't something that is common, but I have had it myself and I forgot to put it on the to-do list.

I am slowly adding one or two features.
It is usually better to crop the image in a graphics package, but sometimes you have an idea in the conversion program. To cater for this there is a 'Crop Image' window. The cropping rectangle has been done with a click-drag action, see if it's OK, if not click-drag again. This struck me as a bit of a pain, so I have added the ability to drag one side of the rectangle at a time.
I also have realised blends are an option in the two backstitch creation windows, but as back stitching is done with one thread, that's a bit silly, and I need to do something about it.

I have on my list of future changes the ability to draw back stitches in the Image Editor, adding a library facility for speciality stitches, which would come with some pre-defined stitches and allow the user to add to the library. Also be able to display the stitches as vaguely realistic threads with a shadow on half the stitch. Then I'm thinking of ways to save the vector graphics between image editor sessions, possibly even in the project file.
Does anyone think it's worth the effort to make the Image editor window changes? It will take time and a lot of programming, which would be wasted if no-one uses the editor.
Given my current workload, these Image Editor changes are not going to happen soon, but the others could be in an update by mid December.

Regards,

Richard
http://www.chestnutpens.co.uk
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by richardandtracy »

I have realised there is a silly bug in the detailed key when using blends. In the second half of the key listing showing the list of solid colours needed to make up blends, the last entry on page 1 is repeated at the top of page 2. I am not quite sure why this is the case, and it doesn't occur at the end of page 2/ start page 3, and no colour is missing. Very odd. I shall try to track it down & use bug killer on it.

The number of times I looked at the thread list in my last project & didn't notice this bug despite the fact it's in black & white in front of my nose.. Just ridiculous.

Regards,

Richard.
http://www.chestnutpens.co.uk
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SteveM
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by SteveM »

In regards to your previous post about the image editor. My Dimensions kit was from the gold collection so it used 18 count aida, a higher number of colours, a little blending, lots of half stitches, and anywhere from 1 to 3 threads for the half and back stitches. The main purpose of these thicker back stitches was to create various sized bushes, twigs, and branches that were too small to represent with a full cross stitch. That said, I see your program as being mainly used for higher DPI image to pattern conversion which doesn't really need back stitching so only allowing for solid colours shouldn't be much of a limitation.

My own personal use of the image editor would have been to eliminate colours with low stitch counts, but that is now integrated and works very well. So now about all I would use the editor for is a closer up look at the pattern and to fix colours of stitches that don't quite look right to my eye. Since those needs are already well met I can't say that I would use any of your proposed new features except perhaps to get a more realistic view of the stitched result as that might blend in the dithering and help me see that it wouldn't be so garish when stitched up.


This past weekend was a holiday which allowed me to spend more time using your program to try to find a smaller pattern that I might kit up. Of course I got distracted and loaded up a source photo that was over 5000 stitches wide and somewhere around 3500 tall. Every operation took more than an hour to perform, but it actually worked and the only bug I saw was related to using such a ridiculously large image as it caused the right side of the window where you select various options like "show background" to not be fully visible even when scrolled to the far right. Once I had my fun I got down to business and tried various images and cropped selections of them and in most cases got a pleasing result with blended threads that wasn't possible with the solid colours in PM. Many of the images were landscape paintings with lots of green and areas of dark green. PM tended to push these to black and shades of brown which was very disappointing. The only fault with your program is that sometimes I thought the dither in the dark areas used too bright of green, but playing with the RGB scales allowed me to reduce some of that tendency.

At one point I had a landscape with a snow covered mountain in the background and showed my wife the resulting pattern from your program (with blended threads) and a PM pattern. As I switched back and forth between them it was obvious they had some differences in colour choices, but she couldn't say one was any better than the other. I pointed out to her that the PM used a blue and a purple to represent the snow on the mountain while in your program it was something like 5 different shades thanks to the blending which produced more colours and gave a more accurate shape to the mountain. I think that without referencing the original artwork both looked passable to her, but I had stared at the source image so much that I was looking for that in the pattern and PM couldn't quite deliver with just the solids. I'd like to make a pattern using your program with Anchor blues as it is an image of a sailing ship, but I'm waiting to hear back from the artist if I can have permission to use it.
-Steve

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Finishes: Dim. Gold "Woodland Winter" & HAED "SK History of Chocolate"
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by richardandtracy »

Ahh. My lack of knowledge has just shown itself. I was unaware that more than one thread was ever used for backstitching. I will leave the possibility of blends in.

I do take your point about the image editor most likely being used as a pixel editor for small quantities of pixel changes than for developing a new design from scratch. Think you are probably right.

On the problem with huge images. Beginning to think it may be wise to have a limit of (say) 50% the screen width for the image, and if it's bigger than this, then simply display a shrunk version taking up a maximum of 50% the screen width. I never expected the program to be used for images exceeding 500 pixels wide, as a square that big would take me in the region of 5 years to stitch up, and I find it difficult to want to invest that length of time in a single project.

Regards,

Richard.
http://www.chestnutpens.co.uk
Free Charting Program for PC's Info Zip Installation
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SteveM
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by SteveM »

richardandtracy wrote:I never expected the program to be used for images exceeding 500 pixels wide, as a square that big would take me in the region of 5 years to stitch up, and I find it difficult to want to invest that length of time in a single project.
And would take me 10 years to stitch up. I don't think you need to make any changes to support large images just because I was playing around having fun. If anything it is a compliment that such a huge image could be fed through your program and a pattern created. PM and MacStitch only allow a maximum of 999x999 which you don't hear anyone complaining about.
-Steve

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Allyn
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by Allyn »

richardandtracy wrote:...I never expected the program to be used for images exceeding 500 pixels wide ....
That's only because you didn't know me that well when you started this. :)
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by richardandtracy »

Allyn:

That's true.
Very true.

Don't think I could have reasonably predicted someone like you would exist before meeting you. :wink:

Now that I have a [very] big hole to climb out of, I'd like to say that it has been enlightening and not at all unpleasant. :lol:
And thanks. The program is better, miles better, as a result of your input.


Steve:
You're right. We don't hear complaints about a 999x999 limit. I originally thought there would be a 999x999 limit on my software as the compiler documentation written during Win95 days suggested that Windows imposed a 999x999 limit on bitmaps - but as it seems to have been an OS limitation rather than anything else, the limit has gone away.. What does surprise me, though, is how rarely PM's 240 colour limit is complained about. In fact, I've never heard a complaint. I cannot, for the life of me understand why PM has a colour limit of 240, and why that arbitrary number is the limit.

Regards,

Richard.
http://www.chestnutpens.co.uk
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by SteveM »

I've always wondered why 999 was the limit instead of a more human friendly size such as 1000, now I know where it came from.

When I run PM to see how it will convert an image I always set the max colours to 240 (yes, an odd choice) and it has never used the full 240. A typical usage is 100 to 150 colours on a pattern I might choose to use 200-300 blended threads with in your program. The effect is usually fairly good even with lower numbers of colours, but it has some serious issues at time such as turning green to brown.
-Steve

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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by richardandtracy »

The use of a least squares check on the RGB values of greens & browns can lead to many browns turning green in a conversion. In some ways it's a problem with the way humans perceive colour, we see greens quite strongly for some reason, rather than the eye's response being linear in all parts of the spectrum, and a small reduction in the red content turns something strongly green from a brown. That is why I included a weighting section in the conversion part of my program, so you can tweak the conversion to notice errors in the R or G or B values more strongly. I know the way I've implemented it is not particularly intuitive (it makes the programming easier the way I've done it), Higher weighting = less error in the end.

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Richard
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salome
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by salome »

Richard - Thank you so much for this program. I've had it a couple weeks or so now and have enjoyed toying with it. I haven't used it for anything too ambitious, so far just converting some of my kids' drawings into patterns so I can stitch them up for birthdays next year. (My son draws hilarious stick figure zombies, my oldest daughter draws mendala-type things, and my 4 year old girl draws spiders. We're...eclectic.) I was showing the patterns to my mom and now she's excited about the possibilities - beloved pets that have long gone, family portraits, etc. Again, thanks so much! :applesauce: :applesauce:
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by richardandtracy »

My pleasure Josie.
It's really a 'thank-you' to anyone who wants to use it for the help & advice I've received on this forum. Glad you're finding it useful.

Regards,

Richard
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by richardandtracy »

I noticed there was a duplicate entry in the DMC thread list (3760 described as both Peacock Blue and Wedgewood Blue), though the RGB numbers for the peacock blue were the same as the deleted 806. Not quite sure how this happened. I have updated the DMC blend list too.
Furthermore, I have updated the program to remove the two bugs mentioned at the beginning of the month. This can now be downloaded.

Regards,

Richard.
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by LadyS »

I've been away so long I didn't see this until now! (I think I haven't, at least :thinks: )

I downloaded it and can't wait to toy with it! I'd been meaning to make a pattern for ages and didn't get around to thinking how to go about it. Now I can try it with this!
Laura (aka lsschwartz on HAED BB)

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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by snappyboy »

Hi Richard,

I just downloaded the file for your program and tried to install or run it, but all I got was a folder full of excel files. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks

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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by Allyn »

I'm not Richard, but I use his software. Once you extract the files in the zip (which includes some Excel files), find and double-click on the blendthreads.exe file to launch the program.
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 2 Nov 2015

Post by richardandtracy »

Hope Allyn's reply helped as it's accurate.
There should be one text file (ReadMe.txt) with instructions, 9 .CSV files, one .exe file, and the .chm help file. Just run the .exe file. It may be useful to set up your own start menu icon, but as I can't understand the convoluted processes now required to create an .MSI installation file, it doesn't install like a normal commercial program.

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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 6 Jan 2016

Post by richardandtracy »

I have made a small update to the program, as below:

When using Blended Threads, in the first half of the 'Detailed Key' where the number of stitches for each symbol/blend are specified, the program now also specifies the length of thread needed in cm and ft/inches. If there are 2 colours in a blend, this is the length needed of each strand in the blend. The idea is to aide preparation before starting stitching as I understand some people prefer to measure out the thread and bag it up during the preparation process. Note that the length specified includes all the same length reserve factors normally used elsewhere.

I have taken the opportunity, as a result of finding that the stitched version of 'I'm Watching You' was darker than the initial image, to add an optional thread definition file to the download package called 'DarkAdjustedDMCCottonFloss.csv'. This can be registered just like any other floss range to generate blended colours and used as a normal floss range. The colour definitions are all 10% darker than the standard DMC definitions, which means that the colours will be a bit closer to the way you see the floss colours inside a room, rather than the colours seen in bright sunlight outside.
This was prompted by both Cairee and Allyn both mentioning that they brighten an image by 10-12% prior to conversion to get a stitched image the same as the original image. The use of this floss range should obviate the brightening step and make the stitched image closer to the initial image than it would have been if you don't normally brighten the initial image.
I have left the original DMCCottonFloss definition files alone so as not to wreck anyone's existing conversions.

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Richard.
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Re: A New Chart Making Program. Program Update 6 Jan 2016

Post by SteveM »

I'm not sold on the 10% darkened palette. The net result is that the colour conversion has more dark colours to work with and fewer light colours. B5200 (Snow White) which is the lightest colour available is now a pale grey as are the other whites. In an image that is mainly medium to dark with no large areas of pale colours I found the resulting pattern to look fine and presumably would stitch up with that same level of brightness.

However, I have some paintings by Charles Russell that don't come out well at all. His skies are usually pale shades of warm colours such as yellow and orange. Below are example conversions using just the default settings with no blending. On the left the original art, the middle is with the default DMC palette, and on the right the darkened DMC palette. What has happened is that the entire sky (except the very top edge) is rendered in B5200 which is not right at all unless you left it un-stitched and picked an appropriate fabric.
Image

It seems to me that an RGB value of 230,230,230 isn't a true representation of B5200 even though 255,255,255 may not have been correct either. I wonder if 10% was a bit much or if the darkening shouldn't be applied the same across the entire range? At any rate, your program gives me many options, including writing a script to apply my own darkening algorithm should I desire it and this palette will probably work well as-is for most patterns.
-Steve

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WIPs: HAED "Mushroom Inn" & "The Ionian Mission"
Finishes: Dim. Gold "Woodland Winter" & HAED "SK History of Chocolate"
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