Copyright Information

For all topics which do not fit in the other categories.

Re: Copyright Information

by Serinde » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:57 pm

I'm not a copyright lawyer. But two things immediately leap out:

1. Do you have permission from the designer to stitch the design and then use it to sell to make money? Designers have opinions about others using their designs and then selling them for profit. Check that. (Designers are usually laid back about charity stitching.)

2. You might be in murky water if you change the (eg) fruit type and the frosting colour but otherwise the design is recognisably the same design as one already copyrighted.

Find a tame copyright lawyer! :lol:
User avatar
 
Posts: 13518
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Copyright Information

by Allyn » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:50 pm

zephyr wrote:Hi, this is a great and very informative thread. Very helpful.

I have a scenario. What if I took a pattern, for example a cake with pink frosting and strawberries on top. First I stitched it exactly like the pattern, make it into a bag and sell that. Later on, I changed the design. For example, change the frosting to blue and change the strawberries to blueberries (that I designed myself), make it into a cushion and sell that one too. Am breaking the copyright law?


No. What you're doing is outside the scope of the designer's copyright. You can stitch items as many items as you want from the pattern and you can sell the items you make. What you can't do is claim the blue design as your own. It isn't your design, so you can't sell the blue design which is still under the designer's copyright, but you can sell what you stitched from the design.
_________________________________________________________

WIP
Image
User avatar
 
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:57 pm
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast

Re: Copyright Information

by Serinde » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:47 am

Allyn, what you have stated is only partially correct. Copyright is a difficult field, without providing potentially misleading information. Erring on the side of caution is by far the most sensible way forward.

The most obvious place for Zephyr to start is with the copyright instructions that come with the design. These are not always the same for every designer or every design, so it is imperative to read what the designer has stated. Some designers will allow you to make a working copy; many will allow you to stitch the design several times for charity; none that I've ever come across will allow you to kit up and sell the design. Would the designer of Zephyr's strawberry cake allow her to stitch the design, mount it onto a bag and sell it? I don't know, and neither do you. Zephyr needs to read the copyright restrictions. If she is in doubt, she should ASK the designer.

Can't find any copyright information on your kit or download? This does not mean that copyright does not apply. The moment designers metaphorically put pencils to graph paper, they also create the copyright that protects that design. Does a design have to be officially registered to be copyrighted? No. Registration only strengthens the copyright in various ways, most notably allowing access to the courts for redress of violation, but registration doesn’t create the copyright. The copyright is inherent in the creative process.

You are correct that Zephyr can't claim the blue design as her own. If someone can look at the changes she has made in the design and see the work of the original artist, then copyright could be infringed. Common sense tell you that this doesn’t apply to ideas which are universal or can’t be expressed in other ways, like a bunch of flowers or a kitten. However, it does apply to the unique way a designer has interpreted the bunch of flowers or kitten, and that is what is copyrighted.

The forum has always been very careful about issues of copyright: we don't want to get into trouble, and we don't want our members to get into trouble, either. We are always happy to field questions about copyright -- the idea that "the only stupid question is one you don't ask" goes double with bells on when dealing with legal matters.

I strongly suggest that forum members head to the top of this thread and explore some of the links there. But here are some which are immediately useful:

Because this forum is registered in the UK, this is a quick link.
And because many of you are in the US, try this and this (which is very readable).
And for completeness, the Berne Convention, which is an international copyright treaty.
User avatar
 
Posts: 13518
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Copyright Information

by zephyr » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:08 am

Ok, I understand about not reselling the new pattern based on other ppl's pattern. that makes sense. definitely will not do that

I've read somewhere in this post (can't remember who post it) that you cannot sell multiple items that you made from one pattern. that you have to buy a new pattern everytime you want to stitch it and sell it. so, my question is, what if the multiple items sold, all do not look exactly like the original pattern?

Anyway, I do check the copyright statement with each book/kit that I buy but sometimes it's not that detailed. And reading the actual copyright act might be a headache. I've read a few articles that explains the copyright law before I was led to this thread and finding a discussion board about copyright law specifically to cross-stitch items is really a great help. kudos to all.
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:49 am

Re: Copyright Information

by Allyn » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:14 am

Serinde wrote:...The most obvious place for Zephyr to start is with the copyright instructions that come with the design. These are not always the same for every designer or every design, so it is imperative to read what the designer has stated.


That isn't really true. What she needs to do is read the copyright statutes. Designers don't dictate what their copyrights are. The copyright statutes dictate. Designers can release some of their rights (which they may do when they sell the chart), but they can't claim rights that the statutes don't give them -- which some of them will do in an effort to get people to do what they say, even if what they claim is outside the scope of the statutes.

What I said is true. I never said she can kit up the design and sell it. She didn't say she wanted to do that, so I'm not sure where that came from.

http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml
_________________________________________________________

WIP
Image
User avatar
 
Posts: 2095
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:57 pm
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast

Re: Copyright Information

by Serinde » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:45 am

Allyn wrote:
Serinde wrote:...The most obvious place for Zephyr to start is with the copyright instructions that come with the design. These are not always the same for every designer or every design, so it is imperative to read what the designer has stated.


That isn't really true. What she needs to do is read the copyright statutes. Designers don't dictate what their copyrights are. The copyright statutes dictate. Designers can release some of their rights (which they may do when they sell the chart), but they can't claim rights that the statutes don't give them -- which some of them will do in an effort to get people to do what they say, even if what they claim is outside the scope of the statutes.

What I said is true. I never said she can kit up the design and sell it. She didn't say she wanted to do that, so I'm not sure where that came from.

http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank


I had a look at the tabberone site when you posted it previously in this long-running discussion. I don't think anything I've pointed to, or the sites that I've suggested members read, run counter to the legal cases quoted at tabberone.

I also think you are splitting hairs. Naturally, the designers rights follow the statute and not the other way around. Nevertheless, the best starting place to find out what basic copyright issues pertain to any particular design is to see what's included with the design when you buy or download it.

As for kitting and selling, I did not even imply that you had said Zephyr could kit up the design and sell it. Go back and actually read what I wrote, please. It was a general statement about what designers will and won't allow.

Do some designers try to give themselves rights they are not given under statute? Perhaps they try. Are copyright laws being rewritten under the aegis of large corporations to allow unreasonable extensions? Many people certainly think so. Is it worth campaigning to clarify and simplify copyright law? Yes, it is. But until the law is changed, we must always err on the side of caution in regard to copyright on this forum.
User avatar
 
Posts: 13518
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Copyright Information

by zephyr » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:46 am

I think I found the answer in one of the articles that Serinde shared.

http://artsandcraftslaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Decorative-Painting-Legally-Speaking-1-of-3.pdf

Under "MYTH: It is not copying if I change a certain percentage of the original."
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:49 am

Re: Copyright Information

by Serinde » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:57 am

zephyr wrote:Ok, I understand about not reselling the new pattern based on other ppl's pattern. that makes sense. definitely will not do that

I've read somewhere in this post (can't remember who post it) that you cannot sell multiple items that you made from one pattern. that you have to buy a new pattern everytime you want to stitch it and sell it. so, my question is, what if the multiple items sold, all do not look exactly like the original pattern?

Anyway, I do check the copyright statement with each book/kit that I buy but sometimes it's not that detailed. And reading the actual copyright act might be a headache. I've read a few articles that explains the copyright law before I was led to this thread and finding a discussion board about copyright law specifically to cross-stitch items is really a great help. kudos to all.


Thanks, Zepher! It's good to know all this rootling about and research makes a difference. We don't want to be spoilsports -- we want to be legal.

The problem surrounding stitching the same pattern several time for sale is a really complicated one. The best explanation I've found is here at the Teresa Wentzler site.

And here's another item about copyright broadly speaking, which I found via Glendon Place: http://needleworkcopyright.blogspot.co.uk" target="_blank
User avatar
 
Posts: 13518
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Copyright Information

by adeliane » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:00 am

I give you a link about french copyright: ADPBE

Lots of french and now some European creators have joined the association. This association was created to enforce their rights in court (local and European level) because a number of people in France or Belgium copy their work and sell it via retail sites online. You can select your language in the right column. :wink:

For my part, I have already reported irregularities in this association (a silly thought she could copy and sell works of AAN by claiming that it was she who had created).
My Photostream ~ Finished Projects
User avatar
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:42 am
Location: Paris

Re: Copyright Information

by MaggieM1750 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:40 pm

My letter I just sent to DMC via their website.
Re: Pinterest boards

We'll see if this gets any action..


I am not exactly sure where to send this letter- so I hope this is an appropriate place.
I am writing today because of the pins I have seen on your Pinterest boards. Particularly, the Cross Stitch Charts and Designs board. Many of the patterns that have been posted link to websites with questionable.. or non-existent.. protection of copyright.

With all that is going on with respect to copyrights in the needlework industry, I find it irresponsible for a major company, such as DMC, to be posting and promoting designs they are not 100% sure about. Just because there is a weblink to a chart- does not mean the chart has been legally posted on other websites. I expect a company that supplies the industry to support the industry. Post only patterns that you have commissioned. Or only post charts that link directly back to a designers page that clearly states they are freebies. Or only post photos of finished projects- not actual charts.

Sure, its easy to just find a design and post it.. but I expect that social media employees for a corporation do some research before they just click and post. Many of the patterns do not list a designer. Do your homework- and figure out where credit is due. Someone designed it. If it can't be found- the pattern shouldn't be shared. If that is too difficult, then I suggest stop pinning patterns all together- just pin finished projects that link to designers or blogs.

I've posted comments on a few designs.. but I've not seen any action, or response from those that handle your Pinterest boards. It is disappointing, and frustrating, that this company is participating in the very action that is hurting this industry.
User avatar
 
Posts: 2678
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:40 am
Location: Minneapolis Minnesota, USA

Re: Copyright Information

by MaggieM1750 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:00 pm

Heard back from DMC today.. and checked their Pinterest board. The board I was referring to now has about half the designs it had when I wrote this letter. A "few slipped through".. ahh yeah.. sure they did. Happy to see they took action and deleted their questionable pins. Hopefully now they will be a little more selective, and a little more aware of what they are pinning and re-posting in the future.


Dear Maggie,

We appreciate hearing your concerns about anything to do with DMC, including Pinterest. We make an effort to check every chart back to its source rather than randomly re-pin, because we feel strongly about copyright and giving credit to creators. Unfortunately some slipped through, and these were removed as soon as we were aware. We respond to every comment from Pinterest users and address any concerns in the comment section of the pin. However if the pin is deleted, the comments are deleted as well. We apologize for not having been more vigilant. We will review the board and update it where necessary. Thank you for letting us know. We rely on our customers to help us be the best company that we can be.

Best regards,

DMC
User avatar
 
Posts: 2678
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:40 am
Location: Minneapolis Minnesota, USA

Re: Copyright Information

by mags » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:25 pm

Well done Maggie. :applesauce:
I am horrified at the amount of copyright abuse on Pinterest. I like to look but wouldn't touch.
mags

WIPs:
Heritage: Tower Bridge
Butterfly table mat
sorting stash :shifty:
User avatar
 
Posts: 10077
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:47 am
Location: UK

Re: Copyright Information

by adeliane » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:12 pm

:applesauce: A courageous letter, while some people who have detected the abuses and done nothing.
My Photostream ~ Finished Projects
User avatar
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:42 am
Location: Paris

Re: Copyright Information

by fccs » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:25 pm

mags wrote:Well done Maggie. :applesauce:
I am horrified at the amount of copyright abuse on Pinterest. I like to look but wouldn't touch.

adeliane wrote::applesauce: A courageous letter, while some people who have detected the abuses and done nothing.


I agree with both!
Debby

WIPs
Tiramisu
Curl Up with a Good Book
Lorikeets
Wolf
Past Present Forever
Tulip Medley
User avatar
 
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:10 pm
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado

Re: Copyright Information

by MaggieM1750 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:47 pm

Aww thanks :oops:
I have a love/ hate relationship with Pinterest.. this being close to the top of my "hate" list. As soon as the hates outnumber the loves.. I'll stop using the site.

I am pretty sure that DMC had no clue what was happening on their Pinterest boards- which is why I sent the letter. I had tried posting on images with links to those sites.. but that went nowhere. Which prompted me to go higher and contact the company directly, through their website.
I mean.. they had even posted patterns charted in Anchor floss.. kinda weird for competing companies. It made me wonder just who was doing their social marketing, and if anyone at DMC was paying attention to it at all.
DMC has a HUGE library of patterns they have commissioned over the years that they should be able to pull from. Link to those.. and if they can't find a pattern in their own library- perhaps thats an indication their pattern collection is a bit tired and in need of an update.
I'm glad they took action- once higher-ups noticed what was happening. And.. I'll send another letter if I start to see what I consider questionable activity again. Writing a letter is quick and easy. I just have to organize my thoughts and send it on its way. And now that I know it produces results.. I'll send any future letters directly through their website.
User avatar
 
Posts: 2678
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:40 am
Location: Minneapolis Minnesota, USA

Re: Copyright Information

by Amanda G » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:22 pm

Well done Maggie! And thank you for taking the time to do that and giving them a wake up call :applesauce:
User avatar
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:30 pm
Location: Bristol, England

Re: Copyright Information

by speart » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:06 am

[quote="Rose"]For all members and newbies this is very important information and we must respect Copyright or we could lose the board or lose a designer because they feel their talent is being stolen.

I just joined and am surprised to see a business selling charts made off of what I know are copyrighted images--Disney and Marvel comics. I don't know about the Superhero co., but Disney will come down like a ton of bricks!
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:50 am
Location: MN

Re: Copyright Information

by Rose » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:59 am

Thank you for the information. I have not looked around that sight as I am on a stash buying freeze. I have sent a message to the company of that site to ask them is they have permission to sell the kits that they have listed for Disney. I did not see where the Marvel patterns are, but I did also ask about the permission for those Copyright/ trademark characters.
If you are looking for some one to help change you, look in the mirror
User avatar
 
Posts: 34059
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:24 am
Location: Gilroy, CA

Re: Copyright Information

by Rose » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:46 am

speart wrote:
Rose wrote:For all members and newbies this is very important information and we must respect Copyright or we could lose the board or lose a designer because they feel their talent is being stolen.

I just joined and am surprised to see a business selling charts made off of what I know are copyrighted images--Disney and Marvel comics. I don't know about the Superhero co., but Disney will come down like a ton of bricks!



I have had a very nice exchange with a lady from the company and her reply is the following.

Oh ok, we are a distributor as well as a designer of patterns. We go through licensed wholesalers in the purchase of all of our patterns and kits which are not designed by us. I can assure you that we do have the rights to sell all of the products on our website.

I was pretty sure that they were a distributor of the kits because if you notice they list the kit manufacturer in the description area of the kits and patterns. I thank you for the concern of copyright distribution but this company is doing things correctly.
If you are looking for some one to help change you, look in the mirror
User avatar
 
Posts: 34059
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:24 am
Location: Gilroy, CA

Re: Copyright Information

by Mabel Figworthy » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:51 pm

Amanda G wrote:Well done Maggie! And thank you for taking the time to do that and giving them a wake up call :applesauce:

Hear hear :applesauce: :applesauce: !
Visit Mabel's Fancies at www.mabelfigworthy.co.uk
WIPs
Jacobean goldwork, Old & New
Designing
Various goldwork projects, putting the final touches on Tree of Life

Flights of Fancy (blog)
User avatar
 
Posts: 26264
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:05 pm
Location: Dunchurch, UK

PreviousNext

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest